Retro: Tactical WWII Wargame Variant Rules (2009)

[Whiterook]

From Minden Games, I became aware of this ruleset on Facebook this morning…

Retro is a tactical World War II infantry combat variant rules set. Gamers may utilize these rules and the components of The Avalon Hill Game Co's Squad Leader, Advanced Squad Leader, or other popular tactical wargames to recreate World War II battles in a simplified, playable format. Though Retro enables you to make use of Squad Leader and ASL components and modules, it is not endorsed nor authorized by The Avalon Hill Game Co or other publishers. Retro should be viewed as an unoffical variant to these fine games, and presumes that players own official modules and rules.

Originally appeared in issues #1-#4 of Panzerschreck magazine, published here as a 48-page booklet with two pull-out charts.

Signficantly strips down the sequence of play, armor rules, and morale rules of ASL. A significant innovation is the concept of "hesitation" (which replaces most of ASL's defensive fire rules), where units moving in the open and in range of the enemy must test to determine if they freeze in place and don't carry out their move.

Designed with solitaire players in mind, or anyone wanting to play these classic tactical wargames with less rules overhead.

As mentioned in this thread, I own all but a couple of the main core modules to the Advanced Squad Leader series, as well as a smattering of accessories, mostly bought as original retail when they were perhaps a tad more reasonably priced. I also own the entire Advanced Squad Leader Starter Kit series of games and accessories, which while admittedly a bit more mentally accessible, is still a drain on other game playing interests. While ASLSK has seen actually game play from me, both solitaire and in face to face matches, it’s still a pain to finish learning (I have Infantry down fairly well, started Artillery, and have no clue on Armor); and full system just baffles and bewilders me…a 3” binder of tiny print rules is just f*ing sadistic!

Still, I just haven’t been able to get myself to a place where I will sell all of my ASL stuff… if I did and later wanted it back, the repurchase price would be prohibitive, so I cling to the kit’n’kaboodle.

….but, could this variant system offer a possible solution to this conundrum? Perhaps.




If there’s the chance that a $21 dollar rulebook can unlock massive playability and gaming sessions with all these games I own, it will have been a good bet; and if not, it didn’t break the bank! Follow along as I venture down the Retro superhighway and try and salvage a collection of games sitting dormant. This could be interesting!!!

[McCoy]

Seems nice, I mean. What is a meager 48 page rule book compared to ASL's full rule set...!

[Whiterook]

Mar 29, 2024 17:33:56 GMT -5 McCoy said:

Seems nice, I mean. What is a meager 48 page rule book compared to ASL's full rule set...!

Yeah, man, I quite agree! The ASL rulebook alone is a 3” binder full of small print text that goes way beyond deep dive. While it may be an ultimate take on a wargame, the learning curve is “Lifelong”, and quite literally! Even had I started learning the system when it came out in 1985, four decades later I may have been fairly adept at the system, but I’m not sure I had the computing power for that in-depth a system! Not to say I didn’t learn difficult wargames back then, but ASL is its own animal.

As for Retro, I’ve been looking at BoardGameGeek mostly, as well as the Minden site, and it looks very promising; once I get the rules themselves delivered, that will be the true litmus. My starting point understanding is that it encompasses only 12 pages or so of actual rules, which even though densely written, is typical of intermediary level wargames. There appear to be a 5 Phase Sequence of Play’ compared to even ASL Starter Kit, that’s very manageable in comparison… seems that Retro eliminates all the sub steps of Defenive Fire in ASL, which I never liked anyway! Minded did that by coming up with a “Hesitation” roll when moving into open ground, a 6 on 1d6 halts your movement… I like that a lot more, as it’s way more simplistic and would seem to achieve much the same result of slowing traffic.

So far, I’m getting good vibes 

[Whiterook]

My copy arrived and I just started reading the rulebook… I must say, I’m fascinated by this variant! Seems it was originally written in around 2009 (per BoardGameGeek) and per the book (5th edition, 2016), it was originally written assuming Avalon Hill’s, Squad Leader as the host system; “host system” meaning, whatever tactical game you want to apply these variant rules to.

This brings an interesting new twist to my thought process on the variant system, in that I hadn’t really considered using it with my old Squad Leader gear, but rather its’ successor… but geez Louise, wouldn’t it be nice, refreshing, and a bit of a karma kick to actually get some use out of all that old SL gear!!! …it has me thinking, man. I know it’s silly but, I see that old SL gear and wonder, “why haven’t I gotten rid of it by now?!?”, yet it holds such sway and sentimental nostalgia for me that I just can’t bail on it; trying out this variant with it may be just the ticket. The other side of that debate is, as I read the rules, I see that old SL (and ASL) terminology…sewers jumping out and slapping me on the face in particular, lol.

Anyway, using SL as the test might not be the worst plan, as I’d either have to use my ASLSK gear, or find whatever I did with all the stuff from ASL’s, Beyond Valor, which I removed for an ASL tournament many years ago. I can always switch to a ASL and SK down the road. 

I also like that the Retro variant is expandable to other systems, from Panzergrenadier, for instance. I’ve always like having one rulebook that fits many games for lots of play potential. The variant is expandable, as well… I can already see that, if you like a certain mechanic, you can most likely, easily work it back into the system as a kinda “house rule” to the variant. As is, it essentially reverses the trend we saw in systems like Squad Leader, that added more and more advanced rules and mechanics; the variant goes the other way in simplifying and reducing complexity… let those last two words be your clue and guide! …getting rid of multiple layers (like several stages of Defensive Fires), overblown lists and charts, confusing and maddeningly long sequence of plays, and lets face it…all that added system chrome that designers get boners over.

As per the book…

…Retro covers the various nationalities and theaters of the war [as outlined within Squad Leader], but in a simplified manner when compared to the original [intended host game]. A shortened and greatly modified Sequence of Play, a new Infantry Fire Table [though it is quite similar], new armor combat rules, and a Hesitation provision [which basically replaces opportunity fire in a better way]are the biggest modifications within the variant. These help create an entirely new game by providing an “I Go/You Go” sequence of play that cuts down on the dice rolls by making Morale Checks unnecessary. Similar streamlining has been applied to the rules involving vehilces and AFVs, and other areas. It should come as no surprise that plenty of detail has been left out of this variant. Long rule sections, refined modifier lists nuanced minor distinctions, and general system “dirt” have been pared down to a great extent. Such streamline of hundreds of rukles means that some of your favorites might have fallen through the cracks. We have tried to make reasonable decisions throughout; feel free to make your own mutually modifications as you see fit, though [it is wise] to please remember to honor the “spirit” of Retro and keep it simple, or else the purpose of the variant will be lost.

I included that quote because I think it encapsulates the spirit of which the Retro variant was created. For me, I take that spirit as an opportunity to dust off a ton of shelved games and gear, and actually play them. It takes a lot of the intent (I believe) in which MultimanPublishing applied to simplifying ASL with the SK system; this Retro variant great reduces even that SK attempt. I like what one of the last tags said at the end of the Introduction…

[the system] is certainly not for the gamer who thinks “more is better” when it comes to chrome and realism and process, but is [rather] offered to those who believe “less is acceptible”, and even preferable, in the name of playability.

So far, I’m with the idea that this may be “prefereable”!

[Whiterook]

UPDATE: Ok, I’m at the start of reading Retro and it is indeed as advertised, mostly. I’ve made it through Rally, Movement, and am reading Combat (next up are Defensive Fire and Close Combat, which makes up the entire 5-Phase Sequence of Play). I definitely see the SL/ASL influence. On that… The book explains a little more clearly the whole concept of using it with a “host system” (as I’ve mentioned above); so basically, you take some game that fits roughly, the parameters of a tactical squad-level game, and depending on its mechanics, you can use Retro to greatly reduce complexity and speed up play. Fair ‘nough!

Being originally designed for Avalon Hill’s, Squad Leader, I’m definitely getting the vibe that it absolutely can do that reduction of complexity! SL was a pretty advanced game for its time, and but for its crazy non-consistent tweaking and adding of rules causing mass havoc between its following three expansion modules, it is still has a massive following to this day. Its rated complexity level is Medium Heavy (on a scale of 5 levels, Light to Heavy, see pic below)…so it’s no schlump.



Buuuuut…

Now consider Advanced Squad Leader! It’s rated at Heavy. Well, yeaaaaaaaah….daaaaaaaaah! It’s got a friggin’ 3 inch rules binder of small print font text! Those rules aren’t telling a Winnie the Pooh story with big cute pictures…it’s explaining in overt detail, how having your pants zipper accidentally down effects your combat laces tripping your double-timing in assaulting a machinegun nest in covering smoke while snow is falling at night from the northeast with no star shells with an empty canteen and stale gum and your emotional morale as affected over thinking about the dear John letter you received when your wife found out about the French nurse that you had a moment of weakness with when she saw the Purple Heart pointed to your pillow (…and you lost your bayonet). I wish I were kidding. Yeah, juuuuuuust a tad complex.



…from what I see so far, I’m excited at the prospect that Retro can likely dumb down even that ASL masochistic dreadnaught!

But, with all those advanced mechanics in the ASL system (compared to the ASL Starter Kits), I’m getting the distinct impression that you are basically dumbing ASL down to ASL Starter Kit (and continuing to a lower complexity of that sub-system). ASLSK is also at a complexity level of SL, at Medium Heavy, so it’s in parity.



…SK drastically reduced the complexity level of ASL down, so what that leaves you with is:

What “host system” do you want to use as your honey pot?

The answer for me is, both SL and ASL are prime candidates, for different reasons.

1. Firstly, ASLSK is fine all by itself for me. OK… got that sorted out!
   
2. SL has too many issues in all the tweaking done to it, yet it still has a lure for me. It is playable, and is the alternative most people go to when they don’t want to (or can’t) learn ASL and don’t want to learn/play ASLSK. It really is a catch 22 because, SL is probably more meaty than ASLSK, but not as anal as ASL. For me, it’s a case of finally being able to use all my SL gear, but is that really a reason to use it? …maybe yes, if it turns out ASL doesn’t convert well to Retro’s scale down, but I won’t know that for sure until I try ASL with Retro.
3. SL and ASLSK are both relatively the same weight and complexity, so there’s no real reason to dumb down SK, other than to speed play (…on its own, that’s indeed a good enough reason, but SK is OK for me in that regard).
4. ASL, as just mentioned, may be the real winner here, as there is a literal ton of maps and scenarios, counters, and theaters.

So, the real elephant in the room, truly, is ASL… for me. I own a ton of it and can’t play the f*ing thing! It gathers dust and annoys me, but I can’t bring myself to sell it. Now let us come back full circle to Retro… this might be the solution to that problem.

….I know that sounds, but in a weird sort of good way, Retro does what ASLers always say…you can’t use ASL maps/scenarios with SK! I think! …I’m learning heavily into that belief.

So if you’ve read this far, and God bless you if you have… we now come full circle back to “host system”. Retro is the skeleton, whereas the “host system” is the fat, muscle, and flesh.

1. The fast option would be to use ASLSK1/2/3 rather than ASL rules. ASL is just way too complicated and massive, and remember that Retro is meant to simplify play, so all the advanced mechanics of ASL are overkill.
   
2. SL is also viable, but the rules changed between modules, so you should definitely stick with just SL rules (not Cross of Iron, Crescendo, or GI).
3. A whole other system? Old School Tactical, by Flying Pig Games for instance… that opens too many unknowns though, as the Retro variant was designed with SL in mind.

…I think I’ll try using ASLSK as the “host system” rules, but start with either ASL’s Beyond Valor as the game material, as I have the counters all punched and rounded.
Stay tuned!!!

[Whiterook]

UPDATE:  I finished the rules… very interesting, and I do like what’s going on here. I have to admit, some of the writing is off, which isn’t unusual, as almost every game designer I’ve come across has issues with writing rules; and to be fair, writing rules is not easy, so some slack should be typically in order… however, this is a 5th edition and a re-write, so some of the verbiage is surprising to see, from grammer to content.

There’s a lot of *interpretation* required with this variant system; you, the gamer, have to first decide which (if any) optional rules you want to add in…and there are two sets of optional rules! These basically add complexity, in the form of additional SL/ASL mechanics. There are also House Rules included for consideration. And on top of all that, there are a bunch of house rules on BoradgameGeek!!! So, tou need to decide if you want to play the stripped down, basic rules variant, or give it some juice and chrome.

MY PLAN —

I like One Stop Shopping… in this variant, you have a small rules booklet with in total (including optional and house rules) 25 pages of actual rules; 14 pages of just stripped-down basic rules. But… you need that “host system”, and even with ASLSK4 being the best (as it has not only Infantry, but Guns and Armor/Air as well), you are adding several more pages…I don’t know how many, but I would estimate in the neighborhood of maybe 25 more mages? So I think I’ll start a word document and create my own rulebook… Retro almost verbatim, but I’ll clean up the written rules dirt, and add in the “host system” rules, probably in a different font color. It will be a Living Rules situation, as I am sure I will add and delete optional/house rules… heck, I know of one house rule I want to create already, with Low Crawl for units *Pinned* by Hesitation.

I’ve decided to use ASLSK4 as the “host system”; and Yanks! and Beyond Valor as the game components, probably using the new updated SK style mapboards (as my two modules named, are early editions with hardboard maps.

[Whiterook]

UPDATE: I noticed the first part of Retro covers Infantry. This is then followed by Vehicles, Armor, and then Ordanace. So, I’m going to adopt the old Squad Leader/ASKSK convention of incremental learning and just start with Infantry. There are plenty of Infantry-only scenarios to choose from so, this should work well. I’ll add in the other weaponry later.